On 9 June 2021, the streaming service Disney+ released the first episode of the series Loki, which is set in the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU). The series stars the English actor Tom Hiddleston as the Marvel character Loki, who is very loosely based on the Norse god Loki. In the show, there is a shot of an official document which clearly lists Loki’s gender as “fluid.” This means that the Marvel character Loki is now officially genderfluid in the MCU. Some people are upset about this revelation, claiming that it is a shoddy attempt to shoehorn unneeded gender diversity into the MCU.
What these people don’t seem to realize is that Loki has always been what a modern person would describe as genderfluid—even in the original Norse myths. In Norse mythology, Loki can shapeshift and, although they are most commonly male, they sometimes adopt female forms. For instance, in one Old Norse poem, Loki is said to have lived on earth as a woman for eight years, during which time she milked a cow (which the Norse saw as a feminine chore), had sex with a man, and gave birth to children. The Prose Edda tells another story that Loki once turned into a mare, had sex with a stallion, and gave birth to a foal. Additionally, the Marvel character Loki has also been explicitly genderfluid in the comics for nearly a decade now, so Loki’s genderfluidity isn’t even a new thing for Marvel.
What does “genderfluid” actually mean?
I know that many of the people reading this article are probably confused about what “genderfluid” actually means, so, before I say anything more about Loki, Marvel, or the Old Norse sources, I’ll explain. The term “genderfluid” refers to an individual whose gender identity (i.e., their own internal sense of their own gender) is not fixed, meaning it can change. Sometimes a person who is genderfluid may be masculine, sometimes they may be feminine, sometimes they may be both, and sometimes they may be neither.
Genderfluid people sometimes alter their presentation based on how they feel at a particular time. For instance, on a day when a genderfluid person feels more masculine they may present themself as more masculine and on a day when they feel more feminine they may present themself as more feminine. Some genderfluid people switch pronouns depending on their gender identity at a given moment, meaning they may sometimes go by “he,” sometimes go by “she,” and sometimes go by singular “they” (which, as I discuss in this article from May 2020, is completely grammatically acceptable).
Genderfluidity should not in any way be confused with dissociative identity disorder (DID), also known as multiple personality disorder (MPD), which is a mental disorder caused by severe childhood trauma in which a person has at least two distinct and enduring personality states that come and go. Most genderfluid people do not have multiple personalities and a genderfluid person will normally consider themself to be the same person, regardless of what their gender identity is at a given time.
For the purposes of this article, I will be referring to Loki as “he” whenever he is in a male form, “she” whenever she is in a female form, and “they” when they could be in any form.
ABOVE: Genderfluid pride flag, designed by J. J. Poole
Loki revealed to be canonically genderfluid in the Marvel Cinematic Universe
In the first episode of the series Loki that Disney released on their streaming platform Disney+ on 9 June 2021, Loki is captured by the Time Variance Authority (TVA) and their file on him is briefly shown on screen. They only show the file for a few seconds, but, if you pause the screen to read it (as many viewers did), you can clearly see that Loki’s gender is listed as “fluid.” (Also, curiously, Loki’s height is listed as 6′4″, but Tom Hiddleston, the actor who plays Loki, is actually 6′2″.)
ABOVE: Screenshot of the Time Variance Authority (TVA)’s file on Loki from the episode of Loki that Disney+ released on 9 June
Although this one shot may seem unimportant, Loki’s genderfluidity is probably going to become more important in future episodes of the show. Notably, the British actress Sophia Di Martino has been cast to play an undisclosed lead role in the series. A photograph taken on the set of Loki in March 2020 shows her wearing a green leather vest that closely resembles the one worn by Tom Hiddleston. Many believe that she will be performing a female form of Loki in future episodes of the show.
If this is the case, this means Marvel is incorporating a fairly integral aspect of Loki’s character from the original Norse myths into their cinematic universe.
ABOVE: Photograph taken on the set of Loki in March 2020, showing Sophia Di Martino wearing a green leather vest very similar to the one worn by Tom Hiddleston
Introducing some basic concepts from Norse mythology
Before I talk about the Old Norse sources, there’s some basic background I feel I should cover so that what I’m about to discuss will make sense. For those who aren’t already aware, in Norse mythology, the Æsir are the main group of deities. They live in a place known as Ásgarðr. Most of the notable deities in the Norse pantheon are Æsir.
The main Æsir are easily recognizable from the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but their names are a little bit different in Old Norse from what Marvel fans might be familiar with. For instance, the one-eyed ruler of the Æsir who is known in the Marvel universe as Odin is known in Old Norse as Óðinn. His son, who is known in the Marvel universe as Thor, is known in Old Norse as Þórr. He is said to wield a magic hammer known as Mjǫllnir, which causes lightning whenever he throws it.
There is, however, also another group of deities known as the Vanir, who live in a place known as Vanaheimr. The Vanir are generally associated with fertility, health, and wisdom. Most of them are obscure and the only one whom I’m going to spend much time talking about in this article is the goddess Freyja, who is most closely associated with beauty, fertility, and sex.
The jǫtnar are a group of supernatural beings who live in a place known as Jǫtunheimr. The Æsir and the jǫtnar are generally antagonistic towards each other and many Norse myths involve conflicts between them. The singular form of jǫtnar is jǫtunn. The word jǫtunn is often glossed in English as “giant,” but this can be misleading, because jǫtnar are not necessarily always giants.
ABOVE: Thor’s Fight with the Giants, painted in 1872 by the Swedish painter Mårten Eskil Winge
Mention of Loki having lived on earth as a woman for eight years in the Lokasenna
One of the main surviving sources of information about Norse mythology is the Poetic Edda, a collection of Old Norse poems that was most likely compiled in the thirteenth century CE. There is considerable controversy over the dates when the individual poems in the collection were originally composed. The earliest poems contained within the Poetic Edda may have been composed in the ninth or tenth centuries CE, while the latest poems were probably composed in the thirteenth century not long before the collection itself was compiled.
The Poetic Edda includes a poem known as the Lokasenna, which was most likely composed in around the tenth century CE. The title of the poem means Loki’s Contest of Insults. The poem is written in ljóðaháttr verse, meaning it is written in a ballad form consisting of four-line stanzas.
In the poem, the sea god Ægir is holding a feast. Many Æsir, Vanir, and elves are in attendance. Ægir’s servants Fimafeng and Eldir welcome the guests well, so the deities give them lots of compliments. Loki, however, is jealous that they are complimenting the servants instead of him, even though he has done nothing to deserve compliments. He therefore murders Fimafeng on the spot in front of everyone. The other deities drive him out of the feasting hall, but he comes back. The other deities have made it very clear to Loki that he is not welcome, so he starts viciously insulting everyone.
The feast quickly devolves into a fierce, no-holds-barred contest of insults in which Loki brings up all the other deities’ embarrassing stories and they bring up his own embarrassing stories in turn. In stanza twenty-three, Óðinn accuses Loki of not being a real man, pointing out that Loki once lived on earth as a woman for eight years, during which time she milked a cow, had sex with a man, and gave birth to children. He says, in Benjamin Thorpe’s translation:
“Knowest thou that I gave
to those I ought not—
victory to cowards?
Thou was eight winters
on the earth below,
milked cow as a woman,
and didst there bear children.
Now that, methinks, betokens a base nature.”
Loki, in turn, accuses Óðinn of not being a real man either, pointing out that Óðinn himself lived on earth as a Vala (i.e., a female seer). Here is what he says in Benjamin Thorpe’s translation:
“But, it is said, thou wentest
with tottering steps in Samsö,
and knocked at houses as a Vala.
In likeness of a fortune teller,
thou wentest among people;
Now that, methinks, betokens a base nature.”
Thus, according to the Lokasenna, both Loki and Óðinn apparently lived on earth as women for substantial lengths of time.
ABOVE: Illustration produced by the Danish illustrator Lorenz Frølich in 1895 depicting Loki and the other deities insulting each other, as described in the Lokasenna
Loki’s eager and seemingly unnecessary transformation into a bridesmaid in the Þrymskviða
The Þrymskviða is another poem that is included in the Poetic Edda. There is no consensus about when it was originally composed. Some scholars argue based primarily on linguistic evidence that it is one of the oldest poems in the Poetic Edda and that was composed in around the ninth or tenth century CE before the Norse became Christian. Other scholars, by contrast, hold that the Þrymskviða is one of the latest poems in the Poetic Edda and that it was composed sometime in around the late twelfth or early thirteenth century CE.
For more detailed information about the date of the Þrymskviða, you can read the first section of the article “Myth as Therapy: The Usefulness of the Þrymskviða“ by John McKinnell, published in the year 2000 in the journal Medium Ævum, Vol. 69, No. 1. The article is available on JSTOR if you have access and in preview mode on Google Books.
In any case, in the poem, a jǫtunn named Þrymr has stolen Þórr’s magic hammer Mjǫllnir and he refuses to return it unless the Æsir give him Freyja as his bride. Freyja is absolutely disgusted with this proposal and she refuses to even pretend to marry Þrymr, so the Æsir hold a council meeting. At this meeting, the god Heimdallr proposes that they should disguise Þórr himself as Freyja and send him to pretend to marry Þrymr in order to retrieve his hammer.
Þórr immediately rejects Heimdallr’s plan, obstinately refusing to dress as a woman. Loki, however, insists that they must follow through with Heimdallr’s plan, saying that it is the only way Þórr can possibly hope to retrieve Mjǫllnir. Additionally, Loki eagerly volunteers to become Þórr’s bridesmaid, even though there is no apparent reason why he should need to do so.
Loki’s eager volunteering to become a bridesmaid stands in stark contrast to Þórr’s own reluctance. Moreover, Loki’s transformation into a woman seems to be far more complete and immediate than Þórr’s. McKinnell notes in his article that, after Þórr puts on his disguise, he remains very obviously a man in female dress. Loki, by sharp contrast, has seemingly completely transformed into a woman without even the slightest hint of maleness. McKinnell observes:
“But Loki’s change of sex is no mere change of role and clothes, but a biological transformation. When they are both in female dress, Þórr is consistently given masculine titles except in the direct speech of Þrymr (who is deceived) and Loki (who is maintaining the deception), so that we are constantly reassured of his maleness. Loki, by contrast, is called in alsnotra ambót ‘the very wise serving maid’, as if he has actually become female (Þrymskviða 26,1–2; 28,1–2).”
Þórr and Loki arrive in Jǫtunheimr and Þrymr is completely fooled by Þórr’s poor disguise. He holds a feast to celebrate his wedding to the deity whom he believes to be Freyja.
At the feast, Þórr devours entire livestock and drinks three whole casks of mead. Þrymr finds this behavior out of character from his expectation of Freyja. Loki, however, assures him that Freyja is eating and drinking so much because she has not consumed anything in eight whole days because she has been so eager for her wedding. When Þrymr lifts Þórr’s veil, he catches sight of his terrifying eyes, burning with flame. Loki, however, assures him that Freyja’s eyes are simply red because she has not slept in eight whole nights because she has been so eager for her wedding.
Finally, the jǫtnar bring forth Mjǫllnir and place it on Þórr’s lap in order to “sanctify the bride.” Þórr immediately seizes the hammer and uses it to fend off all the jǫtnar so that he and Loki can escape.
ABOVE: Illustration by the Swedish artist Carl Larsson published in 1894, depicting Loki gleefully dressed as a bridesmaid tending to Þórr, who is dressed as a bride
Loki’s transformation into a mare in the Gylfaginning
In addition to the Poetic Edda, our other major source of information about Norse mythology is the Prose Edda, which is a collection of prose retellings of various stories from Norse mythology that was written or compiled by the Icelandic antiquarian Snorri Sturluson (lived 1179 – 1241 CE). Although Snorri was a Christian who lived at a time when most Norse-speaking peoples were at least nominally Christian, scholars generally agree that his retellings of Norse myths reflect stories that were originally told by the pre-Christian Norse.
The Prose Edda contains a book known as the Gylfaginning. In chapter forty-two of this book, the speaker Har tells a story that is set in very ancient times, shortly after the Æsir first established their home at Ásgarðr. In the story, an unnamed builder comes to the Æsir and offers to build an enormous stone wall around Ásgarðr that the jǫtnar would never be able to penetrate. In exchange, however, he demands the sun, the moon, and Freyja herself as his bride.
The Æsir agree to these terms, under the condition that the builder must finish the entire wall within a single winter and he must not have any help from any other person. The Æsir declare that, if any part of the wall is unfinished by the beginning of summer, the contract will be void and the builder will receive no compensation. They believe that the builder will never be able to fulfill these terms. The builder requests that he be allowed to use the assistance of his stallion Svaðilfari. Loki convinces the Æsir that they should allow this, so they agree.
ABOVE: Illustration by Robert Engels published in 1919 depicting the unnamed builder and his mighty stallion Svaðilfari
To the deities’ astonishment, Svaðilfari turns out to be twice as strong as the builder himself and, with his help, the builder manages to build most of the wall astonishingly fast. By three days before the beginning of summer when the wall is supposed to be complete, the Æsir find that the wall is nearly finished. They blame Loki because he was the one who convinced them to let the builder use Svaðilfari for help and they declare that they will kill him in a horrible and brutal manner if he does not find a way to get them out of this situation.
That night, Loki transforms into a mare in heat, approaches Svaðilfari, and gives him an ultra-sexy neigh before running off into the woods. Svaðilfari, filled with rampant lust, breaks loose and chases after her, causing the builder to run after them in pursuit. Loki keeps Svaðilfari and the builder chasing after her all night, thereby preventing the builder from finishing the wall.
The builder, upon finding that he has run out of time to finish building the wall, reveals himself to be a jǫtunn and starts smashing things, so Þórr smashes him with his hammer. Meanwhile, Loki has sexual intercourse with Svaðilfari and, nine months later, she gives birth to a grey foal with eight legs named Sleipnir, who becomes Óðinn’s primary mount.
ABOVE: Detail of a depiction of a figure riding an eight-legged horse (probably Óðinn riding Sleipnir) from the Tjängvide image stone from Sweden, dating to the eighth century CE
Loki appearing in female form twice in the myth of the death of Baldr
The story about Loki turning into a mare, having sex with Svaðilfari, and giving birth to Sleipnir is probably the most famous story in which they take on female form, but the Gylfaginning actually contains another famous story in which Loki takes not one but two different female forms in the course of the same story. This story occurs in chapters forty-nine through fifty-two.
In Norse mythology, Baldr is a god who is the son of Óðinn and Frigg. The Gylfaginning introduces him in chapter twenty-two with the following description, in Rasmus Björn Anderson’s translation:
“Óðinn’s second son is Baldr, and of him good things are to be told. He is the best, and all praise him. He is fair of face and so bright that rays of light issue from him; and there is a plant so white that it is likened unto Baldr’s brow, and it is the whitest of all plants. From this you can judge of the beauty both of his hair and of his body. He is the wisest, mildest and most eloquent of all the Æsir; and such is his nature that none can alter the judgment he has pronounced.”
Baldr is so extraordinarily beautiful, wise, kind, and morally upright that nearly everyone and everything in existence loves him. Loki, however, is jealous of him because of all the love and attention he receives.
In the Gylfaginning, Baldr is experiencing dreams that seem to predict that great harm will come to him in the near future. Desperate to protect her beloved son from all possible harm, Frigg makes every single thing in all of existence promise that it will never harm Baldr in any way, including every human, every animal, every fire, every water, every speck of dirt, every stone, every plant, every kind of metal, every sickness, and everything else in existence—except for one tiny mistletoe plant that grows west of Valhǫll, which she does not make swear any oath because it is too young.
Frigg tells all the deities that nothing in existence can possibly harm Baldr, so they start a game of pelting him with weapons and rocks. They all laugh in amusement as the projectiles all bounce off of him without harming him in the slightest.
ABOVE: Illustration by Elmer Boyd Smith published in 1902, depicting the Æsir pelting Baldr with weapons, all of which merely bounce off of him without harming him in the slightest
Loki, however, sees this as a perfect opportunity to hurt Baldr in some way, so he turns into a woman and goes to Frigg to ask her if there is anything that could possibly harm him. Not realizing that she is speaking to Loki, Frigg mentions to her that there is a single mistletoe plant west of Valhǫll which has not made her any promise.
Turning back into a man, Loki goes and finds this exact mistletoe plant and fashions it into an arrow with which to kill Baldr. Having done this, Loki goes to the place where all the deities are hurling projectiles at Baldr. There, he sees that Baldr’s brother Hǫðr is not throwing anything at Baldr, because he is blind and he can’t see where Baldr is.
Pretending to be sympathetic, Loki approaches Hǫðr and suggests that he should join in on all the fun the other deities are having. He gives him a bow with the arrow he has fashioned from the mistletoe plant and carefully guides Hǫðr’s aim to fire the arrow straight at Baldr. The arrow strikes Baldr straight in the heart, killing him instantly.
ABOVE: Illustration from the Icelandic manuscript SÁM 66, 75v, dating to the year 1765 or 1765, depicting Hǫðr accidentally killing his own brother Baldr with Loki’s arrow, which is here depicted as a spear
All the deities are absolutely devastated by Baldr’s death. They had all loved him so much and they are all so utterly broken by his death that none of them can even speak; all they can do is cry until, finally, after a very long time, Frigg declares that someone should go to Hel, the land of the dead, to offer a ransom to Hel, the goddess of the dead, for her to return Baldr to the living. The Æsir send the messenger god Hermóðr to ride to Hel on Sleipnir and bargain with Hel on their behalf.
Hel promises to release Baldr, but only if the deities can get every single thing that is alive or dead to weep for him. The Æsir travel all the nine worlds and convince everything in existence to weep for Baldr. Baldr is so universally beloved that every living thing agrees, including every human, every animal, every speck of dirt, every rock, every plant, and every metal.
Then, just when they think they’ve nearly succeeded, the Æsir find a grouchy giantess sitting in a cave named Þǫkk who stubbornly refuses to weep, no matter how hard they try to convince her. The Gylfaginning, chapter fifty-two, describes Þǫkk as follows, as translated by Rasmus Björn Anderson:
“When the messengers returned home and had done their errand well, they found a certain cave wherein sat a giantess whose name was Þǫkk. They requested her to weep Baldr from Hel; but she answered:”
“Þǫkk will weep
with dry tears
for Baldr’s burial;
neither in life nor in death
gave he me gladness.
Let Hel keep what she has!”“It is generally believed that this Þǫkk was Loki, Laufey’s son, who has wrought most evil among the Æsir.”
Thus, because Loki in the form of the giantess Þǫkk refuses to weep, Hel declares that she will not release Baldr from her realm.
ABOVE: Illustration of Loki in the form of the grouchy giantess Þǫkk from the Icelandic manuscript AM 738 4to, 41v, dating to the year 1680
Norse not having a concept of “genderfluid”?
I think that, at this point, it should be abundantly clear that Loki frequently and seemingly quite eagerly takes on female forms throughout Norse mythology. Despite this, however, about a month ago, someone on the r/Norse subreddit asked the question “Is Loki genderfluid?” and received dozens of replies, all of them saying “no.” Many of the respondents express overt disdain that anyone would even ask such a question.
The most common objection that respondents to the question seem to have against Loki being genderfluid is that the Norse (supposedly) didn’t have a concept of genderfluidity because genderfluidity is a very recent invention and Loki therefore can’t be genderfluid. The most upvoted answer to the question, written by a person writing under the username Sillvaro, begins as follows:
“Short answer: no”
“Long answer: the concept of being gender fluidity, and gender identity in general, was not a concept for Norse people. It’s a very very very modern thing.”
Another person writing under the username Blurr_cosplays apparently takes great offense at the very suggestion that Loki might be genderfluid, writing:
“Can you just stop? Like please stop. Why does the lgbtq community have to do this with literally everything. Stop slapping your relatively new ideals onto history from thousands of years ago. No one back then knew what being ‘gender fluid’ even means.”
This objection, however, is fairly easily dismissed, because it simply conflates the word genderfluid with the concept. The word genderfluid is undeniably a modern invention and no equivalent word existed in Old Norse.
This does not, however, mean that Norse were incapable of having a concept of a being whose identity is not fixed as completely male or completely female. The real question we should be asking is not “Did the Norse call Loki ‘genderfluid’?” but rather “Did the Norse conceive of Loki in a way that a modern person might accurately describe as ‘genderfluid’?”
ABOVE: Screenshot of the opening post on the r/Norse subreddit asking whether Loki is genderfluid
The inescapable queerness of Loki in Norse mythology
There is no question that, in Norse mythology, Loki sometimes takes female forms. Whether Loki is what a modern person might describe as genderfluid depends whether you think that, when Loki is in a female form, she actually is female or you think that, when Loki is in a female form, he is still a fundamentally male being who is merely inhabiting a female body.
I personally think that it makes most sense to think of Loki in Norse mythology as genderfluid. This especially seems to be the case when you consider the story in the Lokasenna that Loki lived on earth as a woman for eight years, since it’s very hard to imagine someone voluntarily living as a woman for that long without at least identifying as a woman in some sense. Other people, however, seem to disagree. Sillvaro’s answer to the question on the r/Norse subreddit continues:
“In the Norse myths, Loki changes his shape, not his gender or sex. Basically, if I take clay and shape it into a ball or into a cup, it’s still clay. Same thing for Loki: he will sometimes change his shape to ‘be’ a woman, or a horse, or a bird, etc, but he’s still Loki. The shape shifting he does is not motivated by any form of identity or sexuality. He changes when it’s needed, and then comes back to his normal shape once he doesn’t need to be in that other shape anymore.”
This is not an unreasonable interpretation. There is, however, one thing about this argument that Sillvaro may not realize, which is that, no matter which interpretation you take, Loki taking on female forms is still undeniably queer. If Loki is sometimes a male being inhabiting a female body, that’s still a queer gender identity (as any transgender man can tell you). Thus, in essence, Sillvaro is arguing that Loki isn’t genderfluid because he’s actually a different variety of queer.
There’s simply no escaping the fact that, in Norse mythology, Loki is not a fully cisgender male inhabiting a fully male body 100% of the time.
The Marvel character Loki’s long history of genderfluidity
Even if we put Norse mythology aside, genderfluidity is certainly nothing new for the Marvel character Loki. The modern version of the Marvel character Loki was first introduced in the comic Journey into Mystery, issue No. 85, which was released in October 1962. The comic was co-written by Stan Lee and Larry Lieber and drawn by Jack Kirby. One of this version of Loki’s main powers from the very beginning was the ability to shapeshift into different forms, including female forms. This is, of course, a power that the god Loki has in Norse mythology as well.
Over the past couple decades, Marvel comics have started to lean more heavily into the genderfluid aspects of Loki’s character. In 2008, in J. Michael Straczynski, Marko Djurdjevic, and Olivier Coipel’s Thor comic series began an extended storyline in which Loki takes on a female body that was originally meant for Lady Sif. This female version of Loki is referred to in the comic as “Lady Loki.”
The solo comic series Loki: Agent of Asgard, written by Al Ewing and released in seventeen issues from 2014 until 2015, explicitly confirms that Loki is pansexual and genderfluid. The comic establishes that Loki regularly switches between male and female forms, but they are still Loki no matter which gender they present as. The comic also establishes that, when Loki is presenting as female, she uses feminine pronouns, but, when he is presenting as male, he uses masculine pronouns.
ABOVE: Set of panels from Loki: Agent of Asgard, issue No. 14, showing Loki switching from a male body to a female body
Loki’s genderfluidity has been referenced extensively in the comics ever since Loki: Agent of Asgard. Notably, the solo comic book Vote Loki was released in four parts from June 2016 to August 2016 as a satire of the 2016 United States presidential election. It portrays Loki as running for president of the United States on the unconventional platform that he will lie to the American people outright, rather than pretending not to lie like most politicians.
Throughout the book, Loki mostly appears as a man, but there are a few scenes in which she appears as a woman, including one scene in which she remarks (apparently jokingly) about how running for president as a woman might help her to win the female vote.
ABOVE: Set of panels from the 2016 solo comic book Vote Loki, showing Loki as a woman
Conclusion
The revelation that Loki is genderfluid in the Marvel Cinematic Universe is not a shoddy attempt to shoehorn gender diversity where none rightfully should exist, but rather the exact opposite. Loki’s genderfluidity has been a part of their character since the beginning, but, until now, the Marvel Cinematic Universe has avoided mentioning it. Now, though, they have finally acknowledged it by including mention of it in one of their shows.
Let’s hope this is only the beginning.
I think you’re confusing real human genderfluidity with the legendary ability of a supernatural being to transform into another person (or even an animal) to achieve a specific purpose. This is much different than “feeling masculine” or “feeling feminine” at a given moment.
Except, as I’ve pointed out in the article, Loki is supposed to have spent years living as a woman and, in many cases, they assume female forms when there is no apparent reason why they should need to do so. That really comes across, to me at least, like something a bit more than him merely adopting female forms to accomplish “specific purposes.”
“Specific purposes” might just mean pure curiosity. If given the chance to make an easy and reversible sex change for a limited period of time with no long-term repercussions (all those conditions are important), I think a lot of people would take up that offer just to see what it was like.
Yeah but remember this was medieval Norse society. Any comparison of a man to a woman or accusing a man of acting like a woman (or in Loki’s case being a woman) was seen as a huge insult. So someone willingly (and in Loki’s case eagerly) changing from a man into a woman I think would be a big deal and not something you would do casually just to see what it was like.
I think that Henri Mourant has hit the nail right on the head here. We’re talking about medieval Norse society, which was intensely patriarchal and placed an extremely high value on manliness. For a deity to voluntarily become a woman would have been extremely taboo. The steep social cost of Loki having lived as a woman is evident in the fact that the whole reason we know about this story in the first place is because Óðinn brings it up in the Lokasenna specifically in order to insult him.
Oh God, I’m done with this mailing list and site. You’ve gone from interesting historical content to EVERYTHING being about indentity politics . It’s absolutely cringe inducing and obviously something that’s taken over your cognitive sensibilities in their entirety. You’ve become a THAT guy. The one who bores everyone senseless with politics and such.
I’m sorry the author reader relationship had to end this way. Your content when not mired in political nonsense is fantastic, what a shame it came to this.
Good luck and goodbye!
Look, I’m still writing interesting historical content. Part of the reason why I do talk about politics is because it helps make the history I write about more immediately relevant. I mean, the vast majority of this article is literally just me retelling amusing stories from the Eddas. If you can’t handle even the slightest political framing, then maybe you really shouldn’t be following my blog.
I also unfortunately feel the need to point out that even the mere existence of certain kinds of people has been politicized, so, if I write anything about anyone other than straight cisgender white men, people always complain that that’s “political.” After all, as I mentioned in my article from earlier this week, the mere existence of Black people in Britain in the nineteenth century is apparently enough to spark political outrage.
alright dont there are many people who are interested in his articles or maybe you dont like the truth
I thought Genderfluid was a liquid that was sold in stores? Produced by squeezing males and females, getting their gender juice and then refining it?
I kid! I kid the Genderfluid! No one laughs hard than they/she/it/he does, a good natured group.
Great article! Unlike some of the overly sensitive right wingers in the replies I found it very interesting (how is it “political nonsense” to say that gender fluid people exist???). Anyways one thing I would add is that from what I understand in the pre-christian Norse society that these myths were created in, comparing a man to a woman was a huge insult so the fact that Loki is presented in the myths as gender fluid probably means that the medieval Norse (or at least most of the men) didn’t like or respect him much (but that shouldn’t be a huge surprise I guess lol).
Yes indeed, that is probably correct. I probably should have mentioned that the Norse generally didn’t like Loki in my article, although that might be rather obvious, especially given his role in the death of Baldr and the role he’s supposed to have in initiating Ragnarǫk.
This is really not political at all. You’ve done an article on homosexuality in ancient Greece, this is similar. Our modern conception of homosexuality does not reflect the realities of same sex relations in Ancient Greece. That’s the reality, I doubt many people complained about it in the comments. Is Loki seen as a being with no fixed gender in Norse myth? Yes! Nonetheless, that does not mean Loki had the identity of being genderfluid, that is a very modern nonbinary identity. Noting the existence of a genderfluid, in the sense of lacking a fixed gender, figure in myth is far from political. I honestly think the people complaining are the sort of people who are fine seeing political discourse they agree with, but whine when something they disagree with or don’t care about is given room to be discussed. Don’t let the naysayers drag you down Spencer, you are discussing important topics through the lense of history. People might complain, but no one can make everyone happy without fence sitting.
I want to echo what Evelyn said. Political or not-political, this topic is interesting and puts modern-day experiences and explorations in a fascinating historical context. You are helping people enlarge their concept of what is “normal/acceptable.” That’s always vital work.
This is a very warped and narrowminded view of Loki and Norse Mythology. I really have no idea why people these days think they can hijack past legends and rewrite them through the lens of their ideology to force it onto others’ culture and ancestors. Being a shapeshifting trickster who took on forms that he wanted to trick people or achieve some goal is not genderfluid. It really didn’t matter what form he took, he was still Loki the male on the inside. He wasn’t a woman anymore than he was a fish, or a horse, or a flea, or a fly. He was Loki, the god of mischief who bent all social norms in weird and fanciful ways to amaze or horrify a captive audience. He wasn’t queer either. That’s yet another modern expectation you are forcing onto ancient stories. These were oral stories meant to be shocking and entertaining. They don’t reflect how the Norse people of old really conceptualized things like gender or queerness. Why force a square peg into a round hole? It’s so unnecessary. It’s not as if they believed a person in real life could father a giant sea serpent or birth an eight-legged horse. Why would Loki’s gender be anymore realistic or based on their views of gender at the time? It’s quite illogical to be honest. You did so much research to come to an illogical conclusion. It seems to be a case of confirmation bias.