Long-time followers of this blog may remember that, two years ago, during my senior year of undergrad at IU Bloomington, I applied to four different PhD programs in classics and ancient history. Unfortunately, although one program—the Graduate Group in Ancient History at Penn—did interview me and seems to have seriously considered me for admission, in the end, none of the programs I applied to made me an offer of admission. As a result, I entered the terminal MA program in Ancient Greek and Roman Studies at Brandeis University, which I had applied to as a backup option in case none of the PhD programs I applied to accepted me.
I am now in my second and final year in the program at Brandeis. I am in the process of finishing my master’s thesis and am on track to graduate with my MA in May of this year. In December of last year, I submitted PhD applications a second time for the current application cycle. This time, I applied to six different PhD programs. I had a much stronger application this time all around than I had the first time, including much stronger statements of purpose, a stronger writing sample, much greater experience, significantly stronger Greek and Latin, and an almost-complete MA. I was sincerely hoping to receive better results. Sadly, I now know the results of most of the applications I submitted and I am disappointed to say that, although there is still a possibility that one program may admit me, so far, my experience this time has not gone much better than it did the first time.
At this point, I know that the programs I applied to at the University of Pennsylvania, University of Chicago, Princeton, University of Michigan at Ann Arbor, and University of California Berkeley have all rejected me. Of these five programs, the Graduate Group in Ancient History at Penn was once again the only one that asked to interview me. I felt that the interview went well and I was cautiously optimistic of my prospects of getting into the program, but, in the end, just like the first time, the program did not make me an admission offer and I am not on the waitlist.
In the meantime, the classics PhD program at the University of California Los Angeles invited me to attend a three-day “recruitment event” over Zoom, which lasted from February 28th to March 1st. As part of this event, I attended an orientation meeting, sat in on four different graduate seminars, had lengthy one-on-one conversations with three different faculty members (which I think generally went well), sat in on a graduate student workshop, and met with two current students in the program. I was one of only nine applicants who attended this event, I have learned that the program has usually admitted four to six applicants per year in the past, and, after the event, I had fairly high hopes that UCLA would admit me.
Unfortunately, although my hopes of potentially getting into the PhD program at UCLA have not been entirely dashed at this point, they have been significantly curtailed. The program has now informed me that I am not on their shortlist for admission, but I am at “the very top” of their waitlist, so, although I am not admitted at this point, there is still a chance that someone on the shortlist will decline an offer of admission and that offer will go to me. This means that there is still a chance I may get into the classics PhD program at UCLA, but it depends on whether someone else turns down an offer of admission and there is no predicting at this point whether that will happen.
If a position opens up for me at UCLA, then I will most likely accept it. If, on the other hand, a position does not open up, then I plan to find a job for the next year outside of academia, apply to PhD programs one more time for next year’s application cycle, and hope that I have better luck on my third attempt than I have had so far.
I won’t lie that going through two rounds of submitting PhD applications and not receiving any offers of admission anywhere both times (so far at least) has been both disappointing and difficult. I know well that this is not in any way a reflection on my intelligence or my value as a person and that many different factors affect these outcomes (including, I should note, my own selectivity in only applying to top programs, which have the most competitive admissions, both times). I also know that I still have a chance of getting into the program at UCLA for the current cycle off the waitlist and, even if I don’t, I may still get into a program next year. Despite knowing all this, this experience has still been rough.
A lot of other things that have happened in my life in the past couple of years have affected me as well. Notably, as someone who never really had any close friends for eight years throughout high school and undergrad, in the past two years, I have unexpectedly made and lost numerous friendships. I’ve also learned a lot about the world, about academia as an institution, about other people’s experiences in academia, and about myself as a person. I have also changed in many ways over the past two years; I’ve grown more mature, more skeptical, less dogmatic, and simultaneously braver and more cautious in different ways.
Everything put together has forced me to do a lot of introspection about the decisions I have made that have led me to where I am, about who I am as a person now, who I want to be in the future, why I want the things I think I want, and whether wanting those things is really good for me. At the end of the day, I still deeply love and enjoy researching the ancient world and I still want to try to stay in academia as long as I can, but I am beginning to think more seriously about other options if things do not work out.
Please don’t stop working on this site. You explain the story very well.
I’m astounded that these universities aren’t fighting each other to get a knowledgeable and dedicated student like you into their Ph.D. programs.
Have you thought of applying to foreign universities like Oxford or Cambridge, or the University of Toronto?
I do have some idea about the possible factors that may be contributing to me having such a difficult time trying to get into a PhD program. I may write about the possible contributing factors in a future post, but I will not write that post until I know for certain whether there is a position for me at UCLA next year.
A significant part of the reason is almost certainly the fact that I (quite knowingly and deliberately) have not applied to any programs with less competitive admissions. During my senior year at IU Bloomington, I was one of two students in my graduating year who applied to PhD programs in classics. The other student and I applied to all the same programs with the exception that the other student applied to the classics PhD program at Florida State University in addition to all the programs I applied to; we both received rejections from all the same programs, but he got into Florida State (where I had not applied) and went into the PhD program there, while I went into the MA at Brandeis. There are definitely other factors at play in my difficulties, but that is almost certainly part of the reason. If I had applied to some less selective programs, I probably would have gotten in somewhere by now.
I have thought about applying to universities outside the U.S., but I would prefer to remain in the U.S., considering that so many of the top universities in the world are here in this country and I would rather stay in my home country than move to a different one. That being said, Toronto is geographically much closer to where I’m from and where my family still lives than Los Angeles is; I did at one point consider applying to the University of Toronto, but I ultimately decided not to.
I would not want to do my PhD at Oxford or Cambridge for various reasons, which include the fact that the U.K. is a lot farther away from home than anywhere in the U.S., the fact that the U.K. is a fairly hostile country for a trans person to live in right now and the state of their trans healthcare is appalling, and the fact that the model for PhD programs in the U.K. is fundamentally very different from the model here in the U.S.
I second Andrew van der Spuy’s suggestion of University of Toronto and suggest checking out others. McGill in Montreal and Queen’s in Kingston Ontario come to mind as likely possibilities though my area is psych not classics.
I get the impression from reading a couple of blogs that Canada is a lot more tolerant of Trans people than the current {raving mad?} USA. Healthcare in any of the three cities is going to be as good or better than anywhere outside the very major US centres and probably equal to them.
I am not sure on how healthcare insurance coverage for foreign students is handled but it cannot be anywhere near as bad as the normal US health insurance environment.
Both U of T and McGill also give you the chance to live in very dynamic, very multi-cultural cities.
“I do have some idea about the possible factors that may be contributing to me having such a difficult time trying to get into a PhD program. I may write about the possible contributing factors in a future post”
Given how talented and accomplished you are, I think this would be very helpful for any reader who may want to pursue a humanities career in academia. Unfortunately with funding the way it is, getting into top phD programs is incredibly difficult, not to mention then getting a tenure-track job. But if not you, who?
My concern is that I don’t know who checks my blog and, if I write publicly about the reasons why I think PhD programs may be hesitant to accept me before I have heard a definite response from all the programs I applied to, then I may inadvertently draw attention to those reasons and make them less likely to admit me. At this point, I think it is unlikely that it would have much impact, but I still want to be cautious.
According to research by the Williams Institute, the UK ranks quite highly for LGBT-friendliness (higher than the US, for instance).
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/global-acceptance-index-lgbt/
I would also like to note that Oxbridge graduate programmes are far easier to get into than similar programmes in the US. Alas, it comes at a cost, as you will receive far less than funding than at an American top-tier university. But if you can bear that, then it’s an excellent springboard for a career in Classics.
As an Oxbridge graduate myself, I can attest to these being great institutions for studying classics. Unlike in the US, where Classics have been relegated to a niche subject, at Oxbridge you will find that it is quite mainstream. Even today, it a (relatively) popular subject to study at undergrad.
Wish you all the best.
You might check out some of Bret Devereaux’s writing on academics, post grad, as well as hiring. (For warned, it’s not pretty, knowledge and dedication aren’t necessarily the winning tools, especially in academic hiring.) https://www.google.com/search?q=academic+hiring+site%3A%C2%A0https%3A%2F%2Facoup.blog
Believe me, I have been well aware of the nature of the academic job market in classics for a long time. I first learned about how awful it is way back when I was in high school and have learned more and more about it over the years. I read Bret Devereaux’s post “So You Want to Go to Grad School (in the Academic Humanities)?” years ago when he first wrote it, I have revisited it multiple times since then, and I am well aware of the information it bears.
Gosh, this is tough. I am stunned and sorry to hear about the rejections from the schools. I wish you nothing but the best of luck in your pursuits.
On a different note, have you considered programs outside of the United States? My American spouse did his M.S. in England and thoroughly enjoyed it. Are there any schools in, say, Canada or Europe that would have strong classic programs run in English?
Again, very sorry to hear about your rejections. You are the type of person who should be an academic and an educator, based on how thorough your research is, how well you explain it, and how much you enjoy the topics.
Sending you all the good luck vibes!
thanks for the update. we’re disappointed in academia and sorry about your experiences. boo, arrgghh. Over the decades our view of academia has changed and not for the better… it seems like a petty and cliquey place, to put it mildly. we hope good things are on the horizon in the near future
Academia is definitely petty, cliquey, structurally elitist, and a whole host of other negative things. It is a deeply flawed and even outright broken institution in many ways and, on a structural, societal level, it bears some significant responsibility for perpetuating and exacerbating socioeconomic inequalities. Nonetheless, it is also essential for educating future generations, conducting vital research (including research on topics that are valuable and good for society, but not immediately and obviously financially profitable), training future educators and researchers, and promoting knowledge and critical thinking to the wider public. So much of our current society’s ability to function rides on the back of higher education and there is really no other existing institution that fills the same functions.
…. dang, you say that SO WELL. I wish I was half as articulate when I’ve heard one too many times about how we need less college and more trade schools, and all the related blather that’s going around lately. thank you. needed that today, both the message and the sophisticated text carrying it.
This is the sad state of many academic fields that are not in vogue. Persistence is your hole card for now. If you finally get your Ph.D. you will find applying for jobs is just as difficult if not more so. The only shortcut I know is to submit a book (published or not) that is so effing brilliant that they will be slobbering to admit you. (A recent change in criteria as to the viability of graduate programs is graduating a certain number of people every cycle. If you submit what constitutes an acceptable Ph.D. thesis with your application, they will know they have a lock on a graduate and that may be the deciding factor.) As you probably know people wash out of Ph.D. programs quite a bit (often receiving a Master’s degree as an out-the-door prize).
I share the disappointment expressed and the thoughts shared by all of the above contributors! Do the non-acceptance letters provide a documented (CV based) justification of their decision? I am tempted to the surmise that the rational will be, at least, “interesting” and quite disconnected from your academic value.!
The official rejection letters are always formulaic and contain no explanation for why I individually was not admitted. Nonetheless, in all cases in which I have emailed directly with the head of graduate admissions for a program to which I applied, the explanation I have received has always been some version of them saying that they found my application very impressive and that they liked my research, but they have very limited positions and there were other people whom they felt were better qualified or a better fit for their particular program.
As I have mentioned above, I do have some idea about the possible factors that may be contributing to my difficulties getting into a PhD program, but I won’t write about those until I know for certain whether I will get into UCLA off the waitlist, which I most likely will not find out until the middle of April.
Dear Spencer,
I am outraged by the failure of universities to embrace you with open arms. Partly because 67 years ago I was ALMOST as qualified as you for a Ph.D. program in my major subject in college—mathematics, and I might have been the best student of the illustrious John Nash had Princeton accepted me. A brief summary of my academic qualifications: highest math grades at the Bronx High School of Science (Class of 1953) and later at Oberlin College (Class of 1957). As a poor boy, I needed fellowships. To this day, I can only conjecture as to why I was rejected. But you are even more qualified than I was. So the first thing I have to say to you is IT’S NOT YOUR FAULT. YOU DID EVERYTHING RIGHT.
[At age 22, long before American psychiatrists even heard of “Asperger Syndrome,” I consulted a (Freudian!) psychiatrist named George Maines who told me that I’d have to be twice as good as anyone else to succeed in any career I sought. Perhaps you need to be twice as good as anyone else to be accepted in academic circles too.]
If you had an independent income, I would urge you: Be a scholar “without portfolio.” But you probably need to earn a living and make your own way in the world. Find some niche where you will be accepted as an employee and then be yourself at night and on weekends. [I was able to find a niche for 15 or 20 years, and managed to survive for half a century afterwards by “living low on the hog.”] Maybe you might even hook up with an established historian. You would be a wonderful assistant!
You’re also a very able writer. I have a job I would like to be able to fob off on you. Somehow, despite a lack of native talent for it, I became a writer in 1977. Circumstances forced it on me: a book that had to be written but nobody better able than I was to write it would undertake the task. Nearly 50 years later, I still struggle, wondering each time I look at what I’ve written “Am I entirely right?” and “Might I be able to say it better?” Currently I’m co-authoring a book about contract bridge, checking my partner’s accuracy, correcting his errors, and looking to see how we could say it better. If you were a bridge expert, I would fob this job off on you, confident that you would do a fine job “saying it better.”
(If you ever want to become a bridge expert, I’d be willing to teach you without charge.)
A thought occurs to me. The historian Heather Cox Richardson writes a very good blog. I wonder if you could hook up with her as her assistant, as both researcher and editor, even though your specialty is ancient history.
Speaking of which, you might know something that I’ve forgotten. In a class taught by Charles Theophilus Murphy at Oberlin in 1954, I came across a poem by Theognis (in somebody’s English translation, of course) called “All Things to All Men” that begins “Be versatile, my Kyrnos.” I’ve forgotten the rest , but now, some seven decades later, I’m curious about it. Do you know it and could you please translate it for me?
Love,
Danny
Well that must be rough. I’ll still be reading this blog though and hope you get recognized somewhere!
PS In your article of Ares not being the top god in Sparta, you could also mention how it’s hilariously fitting that Ares lost so many fights in mythology and in real life, Sparta did way worse than one might expect in wars.
I thought there had been some time since the last article on here, but I guess graduate studies and applying to PhD programmes both take quite a lot of time.
Very sorry to learn that you have not been accepted to any; I can only concur with the other commenters that it is a shame they have rejected such a promising scholar!
It would be interesting to learn more about your decision to only apply to the top programmes, as well as your future plans in case you do not enter UCLA, but maybe that is a topic for a later article?
There are several reasons why I have only applied to top PhD programs, but the main reason is because I am thinking about my future prospects. The academic job market in classics is so competitive and academic hiring is so prestige-oriented that it is nearly impossible for a person to land a tenure-track faculty position in the field unless they earned their PhD from one of around maybe ten to fifteen top institutions. Even many people who do graduate from the top PhD programs still never land a tenure-track position in the field; most people who earned their PhD anywhere other than one of those few elite institutions don’t even have a chance.
If I don’t get into the PhD program at UCLA this year, then I will most likely try to find a job for the next year teaching world history, world literature, world religions, and/or Latin at a private or charter high school. Although finding a job always requires work, I don’t imagine that landing a job as a high school teacher will be terribly difficult for me, considering that, once I graduate, I will have a bachelor’s degree magna cum laude in classics and history with departmental honors plus a master’s degree in classics (most likely with highest honors, although it is too early to say for certain); two years of experience grading assignments, lecturing, and leading class discussions as a course assistant; an award from the Brandeis classics department for my work as a course assistant; and experience tutoring on the side.
I doubt that the fact that I don’t have a degree in education or a teaching license will prevent me from finding a job. I know that a student who graduated last year from the same master’s program that I am currently in, whose language abilities were much weaker than mine are and who had far less teaching experience, managed to find a job as a Latin teacher at a charter high school. Meanwhile, another student, who dropped out of the program without graduating, has never studied the Greek or Latin languages, and professedly disdains adolescents, managed to find a job teaching world history at a charter school. Another person I know previously taught Latin at a charter school with only a bachelor’s degree in classics. None of these people had education degrees or teachings licenses.
I will most likely write another post about my plans once I know whether I am getting into UCLA and have things more figured out.
Thanks for such a detailed reply! It must be very difficult to be in a system where the prestige of institutions is of such great import. I guess it is a bit different in my country, where I believe the number of universities even offering PhD programmes in this subject are in the single digits. But I am not doing graduate studies myself, so I have little experience in this. Interesting that one can become a teacher without a license for it. I think you would be good at it at any rate, and wish you luck if that is the path you are taking!
In most states, a person is required to have teaching license in order to teach at a public school, but private and charter schools can hire whomever they think is qualified. The United States has a massive shortage of K-12 teachers; this is because teachers are overworked and underpaid and broader society generally affords teachers very little respect, so very few talented young people decide to go into teaching in the first place and the turnover rate for young teachers is extremely high. My understanding is that many charter schools in particular are so desperate for teachers that they will hire almost anyone with any background in the subject that they plan to teach.
I’m sure you will receive good news from UCLA. Statistically, it would be shocking not to, especially given the fact that you are at the top of their waitlist. I was in your position relatively recently and I got off two waitlists in early April. I went from a Big 10 school like you to a top 5 school for my graduate degree. I didn’t have the best GPA, and I found out about most of my acceptances quite late. So, I would advise you to hang in there.
Additionally, I know institutional prestige is more important in Classics than in other fields, but at the end of the day, it’s the city or town or campus that you will have to spend the next 5 or so years of your life in. I’m sure you will be accepted to UCLA, but, if not, choose a place that makes you happy, too.
Dear Spencer,
Although your pursuit of a doctorate may be on hold, consider other directions your interest in ancient Greece and Rome can take to expand your knowledge and experience. You have a strong affinity for museums; perhaps you’d find a fellowship at the Boston Museum of Fine Arts worth nine months of your time:
The Stavros Niarchos Fellowship in Classical Art is an exciting opportunity for curatorial experience in the Department of Art of Ancient Greece and Rome. Curatorial duties may include improvement of records in the MFA’s collections-management database, object handling, object research, assisting with gallery work, and presentations to the general public. This is a nine-month term position.
You’ve been selecting photos of relevant mosaics, pottery, sculptures, etcetera with in depth knowledge to illustrate your blog. PhD students may be preferred for the fellowship, but this “exciting opportunity” is likely to go to the best self promoter. Occasionally search indeed.com using “ancient Greece” or similar as keywords, leaving location blank, and sorting by date.
As always, wishing you the best!
Thank you for recommending this opportunity to me! I highly doubt that the position would go to me or that I would even stand a chance, considering that the eligibility requirements say “advanced graduate student or recent PhD in Classical, late Roman, or early Byzantine art preferred”; after this semester, I will only have a master’s degree, so I will be neither an “advanced graduate student” (which usually means a PhD student who has completed their coursework requirements and is working on their dissertation) nor a “recent PhD,” and there will almost certainly be numerous people with PhDs competing for the position. Nonetheless, I will consider applying.
Hey Spencer,
Wanted to write and let you know I’m enjoying the blog. I’m working on some fiction and have found the post on hand-shaking and kissing to be thought-provoking and useful when considering some customs I’m inventing for the book. It’s easy to find names and dates, or big ideas. It’s harder to find people who thoughtfully address “what it was like” on a day-to-day basis.
I used to blog back in the day myself and wondered if people ever got anything out of it – so, to mangle the phrase: I thought I’d be the change I once want(ed) to see.
Best of luck with the Ph.D. process! I do wish our society valued scholarship more than it does.
RMC
Spencer, even if you do get a non-academic job, I know you’ll still keep your passion for history. You could even impress people at your workplace with bits of trivia.
I think I’m safe in saying that your readers are rooting for you, Spencer. I know I am!
I’m sorry about the disappointing results so far, but I’m glad there’s still a chance for UCLA! I know you said your blog and public outreach don’t help your applications, and might even be viewed as a waste of time, but at a time when ignorance and misinformation about the ancient world is high and used for nationalistic and bigoted agendas, you’d think your work in combatting that and raising interest in the field would be welcome contributions! At any rate, they demonstrate your knowledge of the field and ability to communicate your ideas to an academic and general audience. I have no doubt that your academic work shows equal skill in research and writing for specialists.
For what it’s worth, I also got rejected from all the universities you did, but eventually got into another program. I second the suggestion by others here to try applying to Canadian universities like University of Toronto if you don’t get into UCLA, though I remain hopeful that you will.
“Notably, as someone who never really had any close friends for eight years throughout high school and undergrad, in the past two years, I have unexpectedly made and lost numerous friendships. I’ve also learned a lot about the world, about academia as an institution, about other people’s experiences in academia, and about myself as a person. I have also changed in many ways over the past two years; I’ve grown more mature, more skeptical, less dogmatic, and simultaneously braver and more cautious in different ways.” This describes my experience perfectly as well, and I’ve been reading your blog for some number of years, as I made those friends, got into grad school, and changed in many ways. But one thing that hasn’t changed over all these years is how much I love reading your posts. I’ve learned a lot about the ancient and modern world thanks to you, and I hope academia can also appreciate all that you do. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and (a part of) your journey with us, and good luck with your career and life going forward!
I wish thou the best of luck! This blog is by far one of the best and indeed, most accessible place for invaluable historical information on a wide variety of topics relating to antiquity, as evident by me losing count of the number of times I’ve cited them. I do also have a question(s) relating to antiquity:
Aristotle in his Politics, VII, 1327b states that: “[t]he nations inhabiting the cold places and those of Europe are full of spirit but somewhat deficient in intelligence and skill, so that they continue comparatively free, but lacking in political organization and capacity to rule their neighbors.”
What does this passage and the ‘climate theory’ of skin color mean for the ancient world and race, and do you recommendations on the scholarship on this theory and its evolution? You rightfully state that while elements of racism (such as colorism) existed in the ancient world, racism as a whole didn’t really exist. Where does the climate theory fit into all this?
I am sorry Spencer that you were not accepted to an academic position. Are you going to apply for jobs outside the academia? For example, can you work like a history teacher or Latin/Ancient Greek teacher at a high school? Or can you work at a museum? Or can you join an archeology team as their classics consultant? Perhaps after a stint of 2-3 years at such a job you could reapply for an academic position and have better luck then, or programs would be more willing to accept a person who has ‘professional experience’.
I don’t like to compare apples and oranges and my experience perhaps applies very little to yours, but before I could get into my current academic position as pediatric hematologist I had to do general pediatrics in small clinics, moonlighting at different hospital emergency rooms, an obligatory army hospital duty, even tutoring high school students in science. Looking back, I do not regret working in any of these positions because each contributed to my medical and professional experience and knowledge in general. That’s why I am wondering if you should not see this as the end of the road and take whatever path life offers you now. (And by the way, if you could become a history teacher at a high school, I am just wondering how happy the students there will be to learn from a really expert history teacher like you – would you need to get a license for teaching to be able to do that?)
I also applied to PhD programs this cycle (in linguistics – so a cousin of a subject) and the whole process has been immensely stressful. I sympathize with you and I’m crossing my fingers that you get that waitlisted position at UCLA.
One of my friends got rejected from every program she applied to and she is one of the most intelligent, talented, dedicated academics I have ever had the pleasure of working with, so at the end of the day it really does come down to luck. Which potential advisors in what departments are currently interested in taking on new students and in what research areas, etc.
Those schools that rejected you are missing out, Spencer. I know wherever you end up you’ll put your all into whatever you do. Best of luck.
Thanks! I really appreciate your kind words!
Hello, I apologize if this question is off-topic. But I am wondering, are you fluent or near-fluent at reading and writing Ancient Greek and Latin? I only ask because I often hear about people in certain Masters or Ph.D. programs translating Ancient Greek and Latin texts. Does that mean people like you translate these texts yourself?
Academia is a club populated by intellectual clones, and friends of friends. It has a conceit, and dishonesty, which is close now to bringing it to its knees. Your articles on this site are first class, and bear a character, amongst other things, largely absent from academic works.
Who am I to say these things? And why should you care what I think? … Well, I’m someone who’d buy one of your books.
Stay strong, and find your own path, buddy.